I'm way overdue on one of these and only a little bit on the other.
I have often wondered if the concept of unitization (a governance regime for oil/gas reservoirs that imposes reservoir-wide management by combining the interests of multiple producers under a single management entity) could be applied to aquifer management. In my opinion there are certain aspects of existing forms of aquifer management that incorporate elements of unitization - adjudicated groundwater basins probably come closest, but none are truly unitization as practiced in the oil fields. Todd Jarvis, who is on the faculty of Oregon State University, as part of their Institute for Water and Watersheds, recently authored a paper (links to the abstract, I think you have to pay for the full paper) that looks at this idea from a theoretical perspective. Todd points out in an email that this approach might be useful in places, such as California, that have very little existing management of groundwater resources but considerable experience with unitization in oil fields. It's an interesting idea that I think merits further study.
The other document that is of great interest to me is the final Cornerstones Report on Market-Based Responses to Arizona's Water Sustainability Challenges prepared by the talented folks at Ecosystem Economics and the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation under a grant from the Walton Family Foundation (who have been funding a number of initiatives related to preservation of riparian ecosystems in Arizona). I haven't had a chance to do much more than glance through the report, but I did have a chance to review a draft copy last winter and participated in one of the workshops that helped brainstorm ideas to inform this report. It's a very honest and thorough assessment of the realities and challenges associated with using market-based approaches to securing water for environmental needs in Arizona and I highly recommend taking a look if this interests you.
Some thoughts, musings, and discussion on the intersection between water supply and land use policies, mostly focused on Southern Arizona.
Saturday, November 26, 2011
Friday, November 11, 2011
The White Man's Viewpoint on Indian Water Rights
This is purely coincidence - but just after I decided to post something about Indian water settlements I came across this opinion piece recently published in the Phoenix paper. Don't be mislead by the title referring to the "role" of Indian tribes in Arizona's water future. This is the same role tribes have had throughout history - donors of water supplies to non-Indians.
The author notes that the story of how the Indians came to control a major portion of Arizona's Colorado River water supplies is "too complicated and lengthy to be told" in his short opinion piece, but then goes on to completely disregard the significance of that story in concluding that there has been an "unfair distribution of Arizona's Colorado River water... ."
Giving people the impression that tribes have been highly favored in the apportionment of water in this state, when in fact they have barely been compensated for the fact that over the previous 100 years the outrageous favoritism toward non-Indians in water supply management left tribes impoverished, thirsty, and unable to pursue many traditional aspects of their cultures, is clearly disingenuous if not simply dangerous.
And as I plan to lay out in my next post, even the rights that tribes have earned in their settlements may turn out to be mirages, once the full cost of that water comes to bear. The views expressed in Mr. Zarbin's piece need to be denounced in very strong terms and the rights of tribes to their water must be protected. When non-Indians can come to terms with that, then the tribes might be willing to become a larger part of Arizona's water future.
The author notes that the story of how the Indians came to control a major portion of Arizona's Colorado River water supplies is "too complicated and lengthy to be told" in his short opinion piece, but then goes on to completely disregard the significance of that story in concluding that there has been an "unfair distribution of Arizona's Colorado River water... ."
Giving people the impression that tribes have been highly favored in the apportionment of water in this state, when in fact they have barely been compensated for the fact that over the previous 100 years the outrageous favoritism toward non-Indians in water supply management left tribes impoverished, thirsty, and unable to pursue many traditional aspects of their cultures, is clearly disingenuous if not simply dangerous.
And as I plan to lay out in my next post, even the rights that tribes have earned in their settlements may turn out to be mirages, once the full cost of that water comes to bear. The views expressed in Mr. Zarbin's piece need to be denounced in very strong terms and the rights of tribes to their water must be protected. When non-Indians can come to terms with that, then the tribes might be willing to become a larger part of Arizona's water future.
Thursday, November 10, 2011
The Failed Promise of Indian Water Settlements, Pt. 1
If you know me, or know this blog well, you might be aware that I work for an Indian tribe in Arizona. While my views expressed in this blog post are clearly informed by my work with that tribe, they in no way express the views of the tribe itself and I write this not as an advocate for any specific tribe but to shed light on some challenges for tribes in Arizona, specifically, but my observations may have applications outside Arizona.
I will try to present this story in two parts - there's too much for one post, maybe too much for two, but that remains to be seen. I'll start by laying out the history and rationale behind the existing water rights settlements (focusing on Arizona because that's what I'm familiar with) in this post, then explaining why they amount to failed promises in the next.
In my work I have been involved in the implementation of one very significant water rights settlement, as well as participating in negotiations for another settlement being sought by this same tribe. I have learned a great deal about how such settlements work and how they are developed. I have also learned that the promise of those settlements - intended to compensate these tribes, who were in Arizona, using water to support their communities, economies, and cultures for hundreds (if not thousands) of years before the arrival of non-Natives and their boundless thirst for water to support their farms, mines, and cities - is currently proving to be yet another of many empty promises made by the U.S. government to tribal sovereign nations over the past 200 years.
The Arizona Water Settlements Act (AWSA) was enacted in 2004 (but not actually implemented until 2007). It is a complex, often cumbersome piece of legislation that attempted to resolve, in a single legislative action, several lawsuits (via negotiated settlement agreements that became part of the legislation), several pending Federal reserved water rights claims in the largest surface water adjudication (this link goes to a webpage with all relevant documents in the adjudications) in Arizona, the repayment obligations of the State of Arizona to the federal government for construction of the Central Arizona Project (CAP) and the reallocation of hundreds of thousands of acre-feet of Colorado River water that had been under long-term contract to several irrigation districts in Arizona. What is truly amazing is that most of that was actually accomplished.
The tribes that received settlements through this legislation were the Gila River Indian Community and the Tohono O'odham Nation (the links provided go to the Arizona Dept. of Water Resources website, which has comprehensive summaries of each settlement), and to a minor extent, the San Carlos Apache Tribe. The Gila River tribe received a water entitlement that totaled over 650,000 acre feet of CAP water, groundwater, effluent, and other surface water sources. The Tohono O'odham received 66,000 acre feet of CAP water plus rights to 13,200 acre feet of groundwater. The legislation authorized use of money from the Lower Colorado River Basin Development Fund (sort of a slush fund for lower basin projects left over from the Colorado River Basin Project Act) to pay for much of the cost of the CAP water that was included in the settlements, as well as for construction of irrigation projects to put that water to use.
The intent of the settlements was to compensate the tribes for the fact that their surface and groundwater supplies were taken, over many years, to support the growth of Anglo communities. The settlements incorporated both water and money - the water intended to provide the tribes with a resource for economic development; the money to enable purchase of the water (and development of things like farms to use the water). The money was necessary because, in most cases, the water included in the settlements was Colorado River water, delivered by the CAP. The delivery costs for this water are significant. This water source was necessary because the surface water previously relied on by tribes is long gone and groundwater was well on its way to being in the same state.
In exchange for agreeing to these settlements the tribes were giving up all future claims to water as compensation for what was lost. They were supposed to be getting water and the ability to use that water to compensate them for the considerable lost economic opportunity that resulted from having their water taken previously.
These are the things that were promised to the tribes in return for settling their water rights claims. In the next post I'll lay out why I think the government may soon fail to deliver on that promise.
I will try to present this story in two parts - there's too much for one post, maybe too much for two, but that remains to be seen. I'll start by laying out the history and rationale behind the existing water rights settlements (focusing on Arizona because that's what I'm familiar with) in this post, then explaining why they amount to failed promises in the next.
In my work I have been involved in the implementation of one very significant water rights settlement, as well as participating in negotiations for another settlement being sought by this same tribe. I have learned a great deal about how such settlements work and how they are developed. I have also learned that the promise of those settlements - intended to compensate these tribes, who were in Arizona, using water to support their communities, economies, and cultures for hundreds (if not thousands) of years before the arrival of non-Natives and their boundless thirst for water to support their farms, mines, and cities - is currently proving to be yet another of many empty promises made by the U.S. government to tribal sovereign nations over the past 200 years.
The Arizona Water Settlements Act (AWSA) was enacted in 2004 (but not actually implemented until 2007). It is a complex, often cumbersome piece of legislation that attempted to resolve, in a single legislative action, several lawsuits (via negotiated settlement agreements that became part of the legislation), several pending Federal reserved water rights claims in the largest surface water adjudication (this link goes to a webpage with all relevant documents in the adjudications) in Arizona, the repayment obligations of the State of Arizona to the federal government for construction of the Central Arizona Project (CAP) and the reallocation of hundreds of thousands of acre-feet of Colorado River water that had been under long-term contract to several irrigation districts in Arizona. What is truly amazing is that most of that was actually accomplished.
The tribes that received settlements through this legislation were the Gila River Indian Community and the Tohono O'odham Nation (the links provided go to the Arizona Dept. of Water Resources website, which has comprehensive summaries of each settlement), and to a minor extent, the San Carlos Apache Tribe. The Gila River tribe received a water entitlement that totaled over 650,000 acre feet of CAP water, groundwater, effluent, and other surface water sources. The Tohono O'odham received 66,000 acre feet of CAP water plus rights to 13,200 acre feet of groundwater. The legislation authorized use of money from the Lower Colorado River Basin Development Fund (sort of a slush fund for lower basin projects left over from the Colorado River Basin Project Act) to pay for much of the cost of the CAP water that was included in the settlements, as well as for construction of irrigation projects to put that water to use.
The intent of the settlements was to compensate the tribes for the fact that their surface and groundwater supplies were taken, over many years, to support the growth of Anglo communities. The settlements incorporated both water and money - the water intended to provide the tribes with a resource for economic development; the money to enable purchase of the water (and development of things like farms to use the water). The money was necessary because, in most cases, the water included in the settlements was Colorado River water, delivered by the CAP. The delivery costs for this water are significant. This water source was necessary because the surface water previously relied on by tribes is long gone and groundwater was well on its way to being in the same state.
In exchange for agreeing to these settlements the tribes were giving up all future claims to water as compensation for what was lost. They were supposed to be getting water and the ability to use that water to compensate them for the considerable lost economic opportunity that resulted from having their water taken previously.
These are the things that were promised to the tribes in return for settling their water rights claims. In the next post I'll lay out why I think the government may soon fail to deliver on that promise.
Saturday, October 22, 2011
Our failed development model
I found an interesting series (links to part 1 of 5) about the failure of the suburban planning model in a journal (Aug. 2011 issue) of the American Planning Association and thought it was worth sharing. I traced the article back to a series of blog posts by the author on the website of the New Urban Network - one of those New Urbanism advocacy groups that have sprouted up over the last two decades.
This isn't really about water - but water resource planning plays a huge role in it, especially in arid areas like the southwest. But I found this series very interesting because it does a really good job of articulating some things I have been trying to say, somewhat inarticulately, for a long time. I think the Ponzi scheme language is maybe a bit strong - maybe because that term has been so degraded through use by a certain presidential candidate, but the overall point of the series is pretty much dead on. The way we have grown - especially in the Sunbelt, but all over the U.S., since WWII has resulted in financial obligations taken on by most local jurisdictions that are proving to be unsustainable. Especially since the financial meltdown. I call it the junkie model of growth - a city gets a taste of something it likes, in this case subsidized growth that increases local tax bases, and before you know it they can't seem to get enough of it and if they stop getting it they're headed for a nasty crash.
I highly recommend checking it out if you find this sort of thing interesting like I do.
This isn't really about water - but water resource planning plays a huge role in it, especially in arid areas like the southwest. But I found this series very interesting because it does a really good job of articulating some things I have been trying to say, somewhat inarticulately, for a long time. I think the Ponzi scheme language is maybe a bit strong - maybe because that term has been so degraded through use by a certain presidential candidate, but the overall point of the series is pretty much dead on. The way we have grown - especially in the Sunbelt, but all over the U.S., since WWII has resulted in financial obligations taken on by most local jurisdictions that are proving to be unsustainable. Especially since the financial meltdown. I call it the junkie model of growth - a city gets a taste of something it likes, in this case subsidized growth that increases local tax bases, and before you know it they can't seem to get enough of it and if they stop getting it they're headed for a nasty crash.
I highly recommend checking it out if you find this sort of thing interesting like I do.
Sunday, October 16, 2011
Hit the high points
There are a number of initiatives currently on-going around Tucson. I've got my hand in two of them, have dabbled in another, and may become involved in a fourth.
1) Way back in 2007, the city changed directions in its role as a regional water provider when the then city manager decided the city needed to have some sort of coherent policy to guide decisions to expand the service area of our water utility. This policy change (it actually was the creation of a policy that didn't previously exist, in my opinion, because prior to that the city would provide water to anyone who asked for it and agreed to pay for the infrastructure needed to make the connection) was a huge step around here and I'm still a little surprised that it has remained in effect. I have several other previous posts on this topic: i.e. here, here, and here.
This was just an interim policy. The city wanted to wait for completion of the City/County Water study before implementing a final policy - which happened in mid-2010. One of the requirements with that adoption was that the policy would be reviewed annually. That annual review process has been underway for the last 4-5 months, coming before my subcommittee of the Citizen's Water Advisory Committee on several occasions. After receiving feedback from the development community, the city council requested that Tucson Water staff set up a formal stakeholder process to request feedback from other sectors of the community. That has resulted in two public meetings occurring the 2nd half of October to provide people with background on the policy and give them an opportunity to comment and suggest modifications. After the public meetings are complete I'll post something on the likely changes to the policy - which should be fairly modest. One change has already been made, when Mayor and Council approved changing the time that water assurance letters are valid from one year to two. This gives a developer more time to finalize development plans and get their development underway with iron-clad assurance that they will be provided water once built-out.
2) The Safe Yield Task Force, which I wrote about briefly here, has continued chugging along. We have revisited the main issues/recommendations that came from a similar effort a little over a decade ago (the AMAs produce a new planning document every 10 years and they usually lead to a certain amount of soul-searching within the region). This group has been meeting almost monthly for about a year and has probably accomplished most of what it is likely to accomplish - but it hasn't accomplished what some in the group had hoped it would accomplish - deal with sub-area management issues. That is because most of the issues addressed require regional solutions to regional problems, but sub-area management requires figuring out who is causing more localized problems and getting them to fix their own mess - unless you can get everyone to agree that we will deal with the mess as a region. But the good outcome has been (I think) a commitment to measure and monitor what is happening in the region to get to full utilization of our renewable water supplies - which is a pretty big step.
3) The city is currently in the first part of the process to update the General Plan that is used to guide zoning and growth decisions for the next 10 years. One of the working groups assigned the task of establishing goals to be accomplished via enumerated policies is discussing the role of water in growth decisions. That group has a working document that was developed at the last meeting (probably the extent of my involvement) and will be further refined at their next meeting, Tuesday 10/18.
4) When the City/County Water Study wrapped up, the intent was for the discussion to move to the regional level - incorporating all jurisdictions and major water users in the Tucson AMA. The mantle was taken up by a group of 5 individuals representing some of the major water interests around here, calling themselves the Regional Water Assessment Taskforce. This self-appointed group developed a pretty clever way to assess the motivation and possible methods of implementing some sort of regional effort to develop more sustainable water use practices. Last year they convened a number of local individuals with expertise and/or influence in the use and management of water resources in a series of discussions they called "think tanks". Which were kind of like focused internet chat rooms where everyone was talking about local water policy, guided by a set of common questions. You can find out more about the process by reading the report on the website linked above.
After completing these discussions they compiled all the comments made into a report that tried to distill them into distinct areas of common interest. This report was recently unveiled to the public at a well-attended meeting. They are hoping to elicit feedback on the report and a series of recommendations they made to continue the discussion within a set of 4 regional water strategy groups - water supply, infrastructure, conservation/demand management, and reliability, sustainability and aquifer health.
It will be interesting to see if the region can sustain any momentum with this effort in the face of anemic economic growth and struggling government budgets.
1) Way back in 2007, the city changed directions in its role as a regional water provider when the then city manager decided the city needed to have some sort of coherent policy to guide decisions to expand the service area of our water utility. This policy change (it actually was the creation of a policy that didn't previously exist, in my opinion, because prior to that the city would provide water to anyone who asked for it and agreed to pay for the infrastructure needed to make the connection) was a huge step around here and I'm still a little surprised that it has remained in effect. I have several other previous posts on this topic: i.e. here, here, and here.
This was just an interim policy. The city wanted to wait for completion of the City/County Water study before implementing a final policy - which happened in mid-2010. One of the requirements with that adoption was that the policy would be reviewed annually. That annual review process has been underway for the last 4-5 months, coming before my subcommittee of the Citizen's Water Advisory Committee on several occasions. After receiving feedback from the development community, the city council requested that Tucson Water staff set up a formal stakeholder process to request feedback from other sectors of the community. That has resulted in two public meetings occurring the 2nd half of October to provide people with background on the policy and give them an opportunity to comment and suggest modifications. After the public meetings are complete I'll post something on the likely changes to the policy - which should be fairly modest. One change has already been made, when Mayor and Council approved changing the time that water assurance letters are valid from one year to two. This gives a developer more time to finalize development plans and get their development underway with iron-clad assurance that they will be provided water once built-out.
2) The Safe Yield Task Force, which I wrote about briefly here, has continued chugging along. We have revisited the main issues/recommendations that came from a similar effort a little over a decade ago (the AMAs produce a new planning document every 10 years and they usually lead to a certain amount of soul-searching within the region). This group has been meeting almost monthly for about a year and has probably accomplished most of what it is likely to accomplish - but it hasn't accomplished what some in the group had hoped it would accomplish - deal with sub-area management issues. That is because most of the issues addressed require regional solutions to regional problems, but sub-area management requires figuring out who is causing more localized problems and getting them to fix their own mess - unless you can get everyone to agree that we will deal with the mess as a region. But the good outcome has been (I think) a commitment to measure and monitor what is happening in the region to get to full utilization of our renewable water supplies - which is a pretty big step.
3) The city is currently in the first part of the process to update the General Plan that is used to guide zoning and growth decisions for the next 10 years. One of the working groups assigned the task of establishing goals to be accomplished via enumerated policies is discussing the role of water in growth decisions. That group has a working document that was developed at the last meeting (probably the extent of my involvement) and will be further refined at their next meeting, Tuesday 10/18.
4) When the City/County Water Study wrapped up, the intent was for the discussion to move to the regional level - incorporating all jurisdictions and major water users in the Tucson AMA. The mantle was taken up by a group of 5 individuals representing some of the major water interests around here, calling themselves the Regional Water Assessment Taskforce. This self-appointed group developed a pretty clever way to assess the motivation and possible methods of implementing some sort of regional effort to develop more sustainable water use practices. Last year they convened a number of local individuals with expertise and/or influence in the use and management of water resources in a series of discussions they called "think tanks". Which were kind of like focused internet chat rooms where everyone was talking about local water policy, guided by a set of common questions. You can find out more about the process by reading the report on the website linked above.
After completing these discussions they compiled all the comments made into a report that tried to distill them into distinct areas of common interest. This report was recently unveiled to the public at a well-attended meeting. They are hoping to elicit feedback on the report and a series of recommendations they made to continue the discussion within a set of 4 regional water strategy groups - water supply, infrastructure, conservation/demand management, and reliability, sustainability and aquifer health.
It will be interesting to see if the region can sustain any momentum with this effort in the face of anemic economic growth and struggling government budgets.
Saturday, September 10, 2011
New Funding Source for the Arizona Department of Water Resources
Back in April I posted about a piece of legislation passed up in Phoenix that would allow the Arizona Department of Water Resources (ADWR) to replace the funding they used to get as a general fund appropriation by taxing all Arizona cities, based on their population. ADWR finalized the rulemaking (specially exempted from the governor's moratorium on new regulations, that seems to be a moratorium in name only) last month and set the fees for each of the cities in the state. The authorizing legislation allows ADWR to use the fee to collect up to $7 million each year, but they gave the cities a break by only going for just over $6.25 million this year. Obviously Tucson and Phoenix, as the two biggest cities, will be covering a big chunk of the fees - $650k and $1.8 million, respectively. This municipality fee is meant to cover roughly half of ADWR's budget - the rest coming from fees on permits, permit reviews, and other services the agency provides. But in the current economic climate I suspect that is probably most of what the agency will be operating on for the coming year.
The big question that has been bugging me is - how are most cities planning to pay for this new fee? There are many cities that have public water utilities that will permit them to pass the fee along in their water rates. Tucson has a utility, but about 30% of that utility's customers live outside the city limits, so it doesn't seem fair to do that here. There are also many cities that don't have their own water utilities - usually they have private water utilities. That requires some cities to just cover this fee out of their general fund. But budgets are pretty squeezed for everyone these days. Then there are all the people who live in unincorporated areas. They will pay nothing, presumably, but still derive some value from the services that ADWR provides.
Bisbee, a city of 5,500 people in far southeast Arizona has a private water utility and their city manager sounds none too happy about having to pay an additional 7 grand to the state to keep the doors open at ADWR. I wonder how much value Bisbee receives from the work that ADWR does? Or how much value the city of Tucson receives for their share of the money. Admittedly, you might say that funding the agency the old way probably resulted in many parts of the state receiving more from ADWR than they were paying for, so maybe this method makes more sense. But I have a feeling the only place that will be getting what they pay for under this system is gonna be the Phoenix metro area. Although, that has arguably been the case since ADWR closed down all their offices outside of Phoenix last year.
It's just that the services different parts of the state require from a state water management agency vary based on the hydrologic issues that area is dealing with and those services are usually not directly related to population, although population is a factor - but in my opinion it's more about population growth than absolute population. Maybe that gets covered by the fees for services part of ADWRs budget, hard to say. But I remain astonished that things looked so grim for ADWR that the cities agreed to fund their activities in this way.
Oh and one other thing. If you look at the bottom of page 2 of the notice of proposed rulemaking there is a sentence that says: "Monies in the fund are subject to legislative appropriation". That means the legislature can sweep the fund in future years if they need to top off their budgets, just like they have been doing for the last 3 years. They have had their wrists slapped by courts on a couple of occasions recently - including their sweep of money from Las Vegas that was intended to buy excess Colorado River water for banking in Arizona. In that case the court said the fund sweep was unconstitutional, but they refused to order the legislature to give the money back. Real nice.
The big question that has been bugging me is - how are most cities planning to pay for this new fee? There are many cities that have public water utilities that will permit them to pass the fee along in their water rates. Tucson has a utility, but about 30% of that utility's customers live outside the city limits, so it doesn't seem fair to do that here. There are also many cities that don't have their own water utilities - usually they have private water utilities. That requires some cities to just cover this fee out of their general fund. But budgets are pretty squeezed for everyone these days. Then there are all the people who live in unincorporated areas. They will pay nothing, presumably, but still derive some value from the services that ADWR provides.
Bisbee, a city of 5,500 people in far southeast Arizona has a private water utility and their city manager sounds none too happy about having to pay an additional 7 grand to the state to keep the doors open at ADWR. I wonder how much value Bisbee receives from the work that ADWR does? Or how much value the city of Tucson receives for their share of the money. Admittedly, you might say that funding the agency the old way probably resulted in many parts of the state receiving more from ADWR than they were paying for, so maybe this method makes more sense. But I have a feeling the only place that will be getting what they pay for under this system is gonna be the Phoenix metro area. Although, that has arguably been the case since ADWR closed down all their offices outside of Phoenix last year.
It's just that the services different parts of the state require from a state water management agency vary based on the hydrologic issues that area is dealing with and those services are usually not directly related to population, although population is a factor - but in my opinion it's more about population growth than absolute population. Maybe that gets covered by the fees for services part of ADWRs budget, hard to say. But I remain astonished that things looked so grim for ADWR that the cities agreed to fund their activities in this way.
Oh and one other thing. If you look at the bottom of page 2 of the notice of proposed rulemaking there is a sentence that says: "Monies in the fund are subject to legislative appropriation". That means the legislature can sweep the fund in future years if they need to top off their budgets, just like they have been doing for the last 3 years. They have had their wrists slapped by courts on a couple of occasions recently - including their sweep of money from Las Vegas that was intended to buy excess Colorado River water for banking in Arizona. In that case the court said the fund sweep was unconstitutional, but they refused to order the legislature to give the money back. Real nice.
A few water conservation ideas
I have received a couple of emails recently from people wanting to publicize their water conservation info. One is about some simple ways to conserve water during droughts.
When I first saw the url I thought it said Connecticut Utilities and thought to myself, "well they certainly don't have to worry about drought right now." But it has nothing to do with that soggy New England state.
The next one is from bestcollegesonline.com and presents a list of ways that different colleges are implementing water conserving projects. Looks like some pretty progressive water conservation is happening on college campuses.
When I first saw the url I thought it said Connecticut Utilities and thought to myself, "well they certainly don't have to worry about drought right now." But it has nothing to do with that soggy New England state.
The next one is from bestcollegesonline.com and presents a list of ways that different colleges are implementing water conserving projects. Looks like some pretty progressive water conservation is happening on college campuses.
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